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[翻译] 官推:GGG对交易的态度

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好久没发翻译了。这两天大家都在讨论精确搜索,我就去找了一下GGG有没有相关的信息,没想到还真有(chris发的)。链接https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2025870。全文翻译如下:
Items Matter. Trade is Important.
交易和物品很重要
When we started developing Path of Exile in 2006, we identified several key design pillars. These are fundamental philosophies chosen to guide our design decisions throughout development. One of these was that "items matter". Items are a player's reward for playing Path of Exile. They're the primary way of measuring progress in a league. A person with vastly more in-game wealth has often played longer than someone with a higher level character. They also matter because if a player had better items, then they'd be able to build more powerful characters, play harder content, and be viewed as richer and more successful within the game. The acquisition of items is why people play Action RPGs. Chances are, if you're reading this, you understand why it's important that items matter because your Path of Exile items mean a lot to you as well.
我们在2006年开始设计POE时,我们建立了几个核心理念。这些理念一直指引着我们的设计。其中之一就是“物品很重要”。物品是玩家进行游戏的回报之一,它们是主要的衡量赛季进度的方法。有大量游戏内财富的玩家一般来说比有高等级角色的玩家的游戏时间更长。玩家可以通过更好的物品来构造更强大的角色,挑战更高的难度,并被认为在游戏中更成功,这同样也是重要的一点。玩家玩ARPG游戏的一大理由就是为了获取物品。如果你读了这一段文字,你会理解物品的重要性,因为POE里的物品对你来说也意味着很多东西。
For items to matter, it's important that they can be traded to other players. It's important that you could give the item to the other player, if they were able to convince you into it. For this reason, almost nothing in Path of Exile is bound to your account. Even in Solo Self-Found mode, which doesn't allow trading, items can be moved at will into the regular trading leagues so that you can benefit from their value if desired.
为了使物品体现其重要性,交易必然存在于玩家之间。能够交易是一件很重要的事,因此POE中几乎没有与账号绑定的物品。即便是在SSF模式(无法交易)中,物品也可以被移动到普通赛季中。
The ability to trade any item is a fundamental part of why people enjoy playing Path of Exile - if you're lucky, you can find amazing stuff that you can trade for all the items needed to create an entire new character build.
能够交易是POE的一大核心-如果你足够幸运的话,你能得到并卖掉一件足够一个新角色全身装备的物品。
Consequences of Easy Trade
So given that we love trade and feel it is critical to Path of Exile's formula, why is there so much debate around trade in this game? Most of it stems around whether trade should be easy or not. While easy trade sounds great on paper, there are some important considerations!
关于交易太方便的一些问题
既然我们很喜欢交易,并认为它是POE中非常重要的一部分,那么为什么有许多有关POE的交易方式的争论呢?这些争论的绝大多数是关于交易应不应该简便的。虽然交易简便看起来很美好,但是很多地方都需要注意。
Easy trade reduces the number of times a character improves their items.
People who are heavily engaged in trade perform fewer item upgrades to achieve their final build. They get there in fewer steps, because they can easily buy items that are close to what they need. Simply put, their character progression is more about trading than it is about getting items from monsters. We believe that it is more fun to slowly and iteratively upgrade a character over time and to have a longer journey to gear a character up. Knowing that a monster could drop something that improves your character is a great motivator for playing one more level!
一:简便交易会减少一个角色提升自己装备需要的交易次数。喜爱交易的玩家会用更少次数升级物品来完成他们的角色。他们能够如此做的原因是他们可以很轻松的买到他们需要的东西。这样一来,交易取代杀怪,成为获得物品的主要途径。我们相信慢慢提升角色的装备会更加有趣,因为知道怪物掉落能够提升角色的装备是继续玩下去的一大动力。
Easy trade means reducing drop rates
Compare two hypothetical games. In the first game, trade is very difficult. The majority of items that can't be used by your character are not traded to other people. In the second game, trade is very easy. Many of the items that you can't use are traded to other people for items that you can. In the second game, because of trade, you have a much higher acquisition rate of useful items. While that sounds great if you want instant gratification, in reality it means that the second game either receives reduced drop rates relative to the first, or ends up being a whole lot easier and less challenging to achieve goals in.
二:简便交易意味着降低掉率。我们来对比一下两个虚拟的游戏:在第一个中交易非常难,你角色用不到的东西很难交易给其它人。在第二个中交易非常简单,你角色用不到的东西可以很轻松的换到你需要的东西,通过交易,你很轻松就获得了很多你需要的东西。虽然这对于想要立刻毕业的人来说非常好,但是实际上第二个游戏的物品掉率是低于第一个的,或者换句话说在第二个游戏里达到某些特定的目标更简单(相对于第一个而言)
Easy trade would make the disparity between different players too great
Both of the above points are even worse when you consider that the level of engagement with trade varies substantially from player to player. Most players who play Path of Exile never trade. Out of the players who do trade, most only complete a few trades in a league. The subset of players who regularly trade strongly overlaps with our core reddit and forum communities. Chances are, if you're reading this, then you're one of the top 10% of players in terms of engagement with advanced systems. The difference in magnitude of trading (and hence item acquisition and progress) between non/low-traders and heavy traders is gigantic. While a regular player would be lucky to accumulate a small handful of Exalted Orbs in a league, a trader might reach hundreds in the same timeframe. This enables them to fully-gear Shaper-capable characters while the non-trader is still in mid-tier maps or lower.
三:方便的交易会使玩家群体间的差距拉大。在玩家之间的交易频率提高的时候,你会发现上面两点变得更差了。大多数POE的玩家从不交易,而在交易的玩家中,每赛季只交易几次的占大多数。(我认为这句是瞎说八道,明明是大多数玩家都在交易,不知道chris说这句话的时候在想啥,职业商人确实不多,但大多数玩家都有交易需求)经常交易的玩家很依赖于reddit和论坛发帖(poetrade被吞了)。现在在读这篇文章的你已经是10%使用高级系统的玩家中的一员了。问题在于,非交易者/少交易者和专业商人间的差距是巨大的。普通玩家每赛季可能只出几个EX,但商人可能在同样的时间内赚了上百个了。导致的结果就是商人可以很轻松的弄出一个能过17的角色,而不交易的玩家还在刷黄白图。
The significant differences in character power and player progression caused by trade has already created a situation where Path of Exile is very hard for some players and quite easy for others. Some people never stand a chance of seeing some of the Atlas of Worlds content, while others can rather quickly defeat it and are looking for new challenges. We're tentatively okay with the degree to which this occurs currently, but it would be much worse if trading were made substantially easier.
四:交易造成的角色能力差距已经导致POE对某些玩家来说过于简单,对某些玩家来说过难。某些玩家可能连异界都进不去,某些可能很快就可以通关。我们认为现在的差距还能接受,但如果进一步放宽交易限制的话差距会大到我们无法接受的地步。
Easy trade allows for greater abuse by automation
Another topic is automation. While we work hard to stamp out bots and abusive behaviour, it would be hard to completely eliminate the damage caused by a few trade bots with access to a fast trade system. If they have the ability to search out and buy items without having to talk to another player, then there would be some very large-scale economic consequences that would not be good for regular players.
五:简便交易会导致脚本泛滥。尽管我们在努力,我们依然很难在简便交易系统下搞定脚本。如果脚本能够不通过对话就购买物品的话,那么整个游戏的经济系统都会出现巨大的问题,对普通玩家危害巨大。
Trade in Path of Exile
POE中的交易
From the start, we knew that Path of Exile needed the ability to trade items and that we had to be careful not to make it too easy. We had seen what happened in other Action RPGs when characters could be upgraded trivially. We added trade chat and a secure player-to-player trade screen so that people could negotiate transactions and complete them without counterparty risk.
从一开始我们就认为POE需要交易,但我们不能让交易太过方便。我们见识过其他ARPG中角色毕业的麻烦程度。因此我们加入了交易频道和安全的P2P交易方式,以确保玩家之间可以讨价还价并安全的完成交易。
With insufficient foresight into how it'd eventually affect trade, we also added the ability to link items on the official forums. Linking items is a way of showing other players that you actually own an item, because the system automatically checks that you still have the item in that form and marks it as verified. This system was intended so that players could show off their awesome finds to other players, in a similar way to the in-game item linking system. Because items matter so much in Path of Exile, it was important that we provided many ways to prove ownership of items. We even intended to allow people to Tweet their items from within the game, though never got around to implementing this feature.
虽然我们不清楚它会对交易造成什么样的影响,我们依然允许玩家把物品的数据发到官网论坛上来。这种做法可以保证你拥有该物品,因为系统会检测你是否拥有该物品。设计该系统的原意是让玩家可以向其它玩家炫耀他们打到的极品装备,正如游戏中的该系统一样。因为在POE中物品很重要,我们应该提供许多证明自己拥有物品的方式。我们甚至想过让玩家在游戏内就可以把物品发到twitter上,虽然我们并没有实装这个功能。
Before long, people used item linking to set up shops within the trade forums. This was expected, because the goal of item linking was to prove ownership of items (so that people could know that you still have the item before they make you an offer). These shops became complicated and people made tools that let users manage their shops and post to them efficiently. So far, so good.
很久之前,玩家通过这个系统来把物品发到论坛上并交易。这种方式是我们所期望的,因为设计这个系统的目的就是为了让玩家证明自己对物品的所有权。玩家们开发了很多工具来使这个过程变得更加方便,直到目前为止都还不错。
Then came the forum-scraping bots. Smart community members worked out that they could automatically crawl the forum and insert all of the items into a database, creating an instantly- and accurately-searchable index of all items for trade in Path of Exile. There was nothing we could do about this, because it's almost impossible to stop people gathering information from a public website.
然后出现了自动搜索脚本。某些聪明的玩家发现他们完全可以把所有存在的物品放入一个数据库中,创造一个目录以方便进行精确搜索。由于我们的网站是公开的,我们无计可施。
A trade ecosystem evolved where players would search for items on trade websites to quickly find what they need, but would have to manually contact the user in-game to perform the trade. While this was a lot quicker than before, we grew to accept it but were worried about one aspect in particular: To create trade forum threads easily, users would download third-party programs and enter their account details (or at least web session IDs). While these tools and their authors never took advantage of this in an illegal way, it was a potentially dangerous situation for our users and we really needed an official solution. We made it so that Premium Stash Tabs can expose their contents to trade sites on a public API.
当玩家可以快速搜索到自己想要的东西但需要手动联系其它玩家来完成交易的时候,一个交易循环形成了。这种方法比过去效率高得多,因此我们接受了它,但有一个方面很令我们担忧:为了方便发帖,玩家会用第三方软件来提供帮助。虽然这些第三方软件并没有被用到非法的地方,但对我们的用户依然存在潜在的威胁。我们通过加入高级仓库并把仓库的数据导出至有公开接口的网站。
So that's where we are today. It's easy to list items for trade, easy to search for items, and is often quite frustrating to complete a trade. This remaining frustration is the only thing standing in the way of trades being basically instant. While we understand that this sounds like a positive thing, we are very concerned regarding what will happen if that does eventuate. We have to prioritise the long-term health of Path of Exile.
这就是我们现在的环境:上架物品很方便,搜索很方便,交易本身很麻烦。交易本身的麻烦程度是整个过程的保障。虽然我们认为这是件好事,但我们依然担心结果如何。我们必须以POE的长期健康环境为主。
The Trade Market
交易市场(市集)
The version of Path of Exile published by Tencent in Mainland China uses the "Trade Market" rather than a system of exposing items via public stash tabs and forum posts for searching on web pages. This system is also in use on the Xbox One version of Path of Exile - as you can imagine, web page searches and textual trade conversations aren't well suited to the controller input of a console.
国服以市集取代了国际服的高仓+交易检索网站,xbox One版本同样使用了这个系统,因为交易检索网站的方式并不适合手柄。
On the trade market, we're experimenting with the opposite end of the trade spectrum, where it's very easy to complete trades but more difficult to find the exact item you're looking for. You can search broadly by a specific item class or type, but have to look through a lot of search results to find the one you want to make an offer on. This system intentionally makes the search process harder and the trade process easier, for quite a different trade experience. We're not planning to bring it to the international PC version of Path of Exile.
我们在市集上尝试了不同的东西:你可以很轻松的交易但很难找到自己需要的东西。你可以搜索特定的物品种类或者类别,但你必须在无数同类物品中找到自己心仪的。这个系统的目的,作为一种尝试,是为了让搜索更麻烦而交易更简单。我们不会在PC版的国际服使用这个系统。
The Role of Solo Self-Found Mode
SSF模式的意义
Players who don't engage in trade are at a significant progression disadvantage in Path of Exile. However, some people are happy for the game to take longer to complete and enjoy the challenge that comes from living off the land. Historically, these players could choose to play alone, but would receive no recognition and had no way of proving that they had done so. Anyone could accuse them of having traded, invalidating their accomplishments.
不交易的玩家劣势很大。即便如此,某些玩家更喜欢花更长的时间完成游戏以体验真正的游戏乐趣。在此之前,这些玩家可以选择自己游玩,但无法证明他们这样做了,其它人可以质疑他们进行了交易,使他们的努力付之东流。
We officially added support for a Solo, Self-Found mode in Content Update 2.6.0 (Breach League). This optional mode allows players to create characters that can't trade or party up. They have separate ladders to show how long they lasted in this mode before opting to convert back to regular characters. It's important to note that even in this mode, items can be easily moved back to the regular game to be traded (albeit not for any advantage in SSF).
我们在2.6(遗产赛季)中正式加入了SSF模式(原文是裂隙,不过2.6是遗产赛季,我查了patchnote后发现是2.6,就改成正确的了)。该模式允许玩家建立无法交易和组队的角色。他们拥有独立的天梯。值得一提的是,即便在SSF模式中获得的物品也可以带到正常的赛季模式下进行交易。
While this mode eases the situation for people who purposefully never engage in trade, it was not intended as a precursor to us making trade massively easier in the regular game.
虽然这个模式对于那些不交易的玩家很友善,但我们设计这个模式的目的并不是为了让正常的赛季模式中的交易更简便。
Today's Changes
今天的改动
As mentioned in today's news post, we are changing the "Online API" to expose the AFK status of players. This API is currently consumed by community trade sites, so it's easy for them to add functionality to allow users to filter searches to just online players who are currently available to trade. In addition, players in DND mode are no longer shown as online, because it would be impossible for them to receive any messages sent to them.
在今天的新官推中我们提到过我们改动了数据接口,以使之更加方便。现在的交易网站可以更方便的找到在线玩家。与此同时,开启了DND模式的玩家不会被显示为在线。
We have also launched an experimental version of our own trade site: www.pathofexile.com/trade. Please try it out and give us feedback!
我们同样建立了官方的交易网站,欢迎使用并提供反馈。
The goal of our trade site isn't to fundamentally change how trade works, it's just to provide an alternative to other community sites for players who want to have options (or use a language other than English!)
我们的交易网站并不是为了改变交易方式,只是为了给非英语玩家提供便利。
翻译惯例,如果有翻译不恰当的地方欢迎提出。
P.S:官推是17年11月的,我只提供信息,如何理解这些信息和相关问题与我无关,请勿对号入座。以上。

本帖最后于  2019-4-27 11:19 编辑

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伊泽洛

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GGG每次想的都挺好 不过玩家并不都买账 以现在来看 市集还是失败了需要更好的解决办法
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说实在的国服这市集对我这种不锁图打T18的人是非常友好的。
因为我买卖地图真的非常非常方便,而且打到的通货都不需要出图交易。
如果国服真改了国际服的样子,我就去国际服玩了,比国服流畅太多了。
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/char/zxc712988/Kuan_TS?i=8&search=item%3DWindripper%2CQueen-of-the-Forest%26skill%3DTornado-Shot%26sort%3Ddps
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发表于 2019-4-27 11:09
GGG每次想的都挺好 不过玩家并不都买账 以现在来看 市集还是失败了需要更好的解决办法 ...

我吃瓜,反正我人在国外也玩不了国服。
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既然官方不想出精准搜索 OK 我接受 但是能不能吧翻页购买的冷却时间取消掉?一下子翻几千页我可以接受 但是因为有冷却的存在得翻几个小时玩家就不能买单了
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算了,我觉得用起来能解决一些问题就不错了。想完美,这游戏毕竟也不是靠交易所撑起来的。
有的人一套装备发N个帖子,广告打这么响,回收资源?
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唉,说了这么多交易降低门槛的坏处,为啥国际服网页市集词缀越来越丰富,差不多能出的词缀都有了。该把做这个市集的策划辞了,居然不按高层的意思做
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圣物之盾

国际服没有快速交易,国服没有精确搜素,这2个东西不可能同时开的。
要喷一起喷啊,天天舔国际服的有国际服账号么?
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总之是受不了1000页。 国服的市集我是无论如何找不出双词缀都符合要求的鞋子。
从3.0到现在,我只玩弓。
不因为别的,只是单纯的对“射”情有独钟。
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伊泽洛

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比起搜索困难我宁愿要交易困难
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发表于 2019-4-27 11:33
总之是受不了1000页。 国服的市集我是无论如何找不出双词缀都符合要求的鞋子。 ...

对于一般玩家,“一口价”和“精准搜索”,宁愿要“一口价”,挂上东西就出门了。没有那么多时间,卖个东西还要上线挂机
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看173里都在说市集,不知道他们是什么目的,自己刷出来,自己做出来不是很好嘛,干嘛怎么多意见,大多数人我认为用不到那么多功能的
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发表于 2019-4-27 11:46
对于一般玩家,“一口价”和“精准搜索”,宁愿要“一口价”,挂上东西就出门了。没有那么多时间,卖个东 ...

那我可能是你口中的非一般玩家,我买东西搜都搜不出来 我买什么。
从3.0到现在,我只玩弓。
不因为别的,只是单纯的对“射”情有独钟。
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伊泽洛

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发表于 2019-4-27 11:27
国际服没有快速交易,国服没有精确搜素,这2个东西不可能同时开的。
要喷一起喷啊,天天舔国际服的有国际服 ...

就算快速交易和精确搜索是两个分开的系统,也不至于这么折磨人了
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塑型者

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不过既然版主翻译了,表示这是17年GGG的意思,那就表示国服的市集是一场有预谋的试验田。

当时GGG也没想过后续只是观望走一步看一步而已。

目前19年的S7赛季内容这种复杂需要各种交换底子才能体验的内容 不知道他们有没有替国服的市集想过。

分分钟让你体验一把1000页市集的快感是否是他们的初衷?

还是说,国服就是一只小白鼠,是国际服引渡的温床,

假如是这样,那只能说,G胖 真是个心机BOY。
从3.0到现在,我只玩弓。
不因为别的,只是单纯的对“射”情有独钟。
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德瑞索

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就是不想变成第二个暗黑3交易所嘛
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福尔

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圣物之盾

通篇看下来,就表达了一个想法,3G不想让高端玩家因为交易毕业太快。

可是3G自己有没有想过自己的数据和难度结构及阶梯做的不好。再普通的玩家1到70级的游戏内时间都在10小时左右。

一些高端玩家开荒时所交易到的好东西是哪里来的?(抛开团队开荒)是其他玩家手里买来的,其他玩家是哪里来的?自己打到的甚至可能是一发入魂制作的。怎么打到的?进入异界打到的。大部分普通的正常玩家都只需要1天不到的游戏时间就进入异界了,就开始积累装备开始攻坚高难度了,一个赛季90天,1天不到就开始积累装备了,3G你跟我说毕业太快是交易的锅?自欺欺人不要太直接啊。

再然后是整体的数据机制和难度的问题,POE开荒时期所需要的大部分伤害和生存提升都来源于6连和暗金机制与BD机制本身,而不是稀有装备的数据积累方面,稀有装备在开荒到走向“毕业”多数时候提供的是达标的生存和极少的伤害积累。这又是为什么呢?3G在高级boss难度上加入了非常多的走位因素,所谓百E级走位就是这个道理。3G从来没有在生存和伤害上做好一个优秀的平衡,以至于“毕业”太快,并且“毕业”的方式就是走位与秒杀。

最终3G把自己极差的数据结构问题甩锅到玩家交易方面。
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德瑞索

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发表于 2019-4-27 12:30
通篇看下来,就表达了一个想法,3G不想让高端玩家因为交易毕业太快。

可是3G自己有没有想过自己的数据和难 ...

目前通关不就是伤害加走位嘛,甚至大多数能做到廉价通关的BD都是玻璃大炮机制,早先BD还知道防御机制是VP加血量,现在直接就无所谓防御机制了,血量BD就一口药当防御,ESBD就自动回复当防御,以至于现在的玩法基本都是各种远程BD走高输出骚走位的路子了
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